"When you think about it, blues is at the heart of so much of modern music that its impact must be immense. I can only imagine how boring the music scene would be without that blues influence. Despite the origins of blues being based on suffering, poverty, pain or any number of human conditions, I like to think that its effect on people will be to bring them together, give them a real good time and have them feel warm and happy afterwards."

Phil Manning: Down Under The Roots

One of Australia's best known guitarists, Phil has a single handedly turned more Australians onto the Blues than any other performer. The grandson of a dedicated Tasmanian bandleader, Phil grew up with music in his genes. From his earliest days backing pop artists and throughout his long career, his musical integrity has always set him apart. Many Australians know him as a member of Chain, the legendary blues band whose contribution to Australian music and the development of the blues in this country is unparalleled. Since the mid seventies Phil has forged a brilliant solo career for himself. He has featured at all the major festivals and venues throughout the country, and the list of international artists he has toured with, performed alongside or recorded with is impressive. This experience spans three decades at the top of his field. His skillful touch and great passion for the blues have kept him musically progressive, always prepared to interest himself in new musical ideas whilst maintaining his stylistic purpose. The result is a gifted songwriter with an awesome guitar technique. His latest CD ‘Out Of My Shed’ (2021) is an indicative album of where Phil is musically today. Distilling influences such as Blind Blake, Robert Johnson, Doc Watson and Celtic sounds into his original style ensures a sound that is timeless and contemporary. His use of a range of acoustic guitars in both slide and fingerpicking styles emphasises his skill at covering a full range of acoustic blues. It is a reminder that blues can be lyrical and melodic as well as emotional.

(Phil Manning /Photo by Jason Rosewarne)

Phil Manning is a consummate artist who continues to write, create and record, but, true to the essence of blues and roots music, it is live on stage where he excels – and it is this energetic outpouring his audience love and have come to expect. He has toured widely throughout Australia and New Zealand, appearing at hundreds of festivals and venues, as well as touring festivals and clubs in Ireland, UK, Vietnam, Cambodia and even Bali. Within Australia he has toured with or supported more international artists than seems possible and the list reads like a who’s who of rock and blues royalty. His playing with some of these artists shows his versatility, from blues greats such as Champion Jack Dupree and Bo Diddley through to flamenco maestro Paco Pena. Phil Manning is a consummate live performer and it is here that he shines.

Interview by Michael Limnios

What do you learn about yourself from the blues culture and what does the blues mean to you?

Realising that blues music contains a genuine, personal expression of a feeling is something that I didn’t understand when I was just a kid and discovered ‘that’ sound. I guess I was 14 or 15 when I first heard the original versions of blues that the Rolling Stones, Yardbirds, Beatles etc had copied to make ‘their’ sound.

It took years before I really started to get an idea of the depth of culture, emotion and life experience that was behind it all….it also led me to understand that this background exists in every culture and the ‘Blues’ exists everywhere, although the blues we recognise as ‘American’ has a particular sound and origin – involving mainly the African slaves of course – but even within that there were influences of other cultures and regional styles even before the advent of widespread radio, recorded music and modern travel.

How do you describe your sound and songbook? What's the balance in music between technical skills and soul/emotions? 

I seem to have developed a style or sound on acoustic guitar that includes the rawness of country blues and some of the elements of bluegrass and Celtic music – I’m certainly not that skilled technically and lean towards melody and, hopefully, a strong emotional content when performing. With electric guitar it is pretty much the same attitude, although being surrounded by other musicians helps with getting the intensity of emotion across. I probably perform 70% or more original material at shows with the rest being traditional or by other composers. However, many of my own songs are influenced by traditional styles and I love using some of the quirky motifs that occur in a lot of early blues material, like odd bar lengths, or implying chord changes without actually doing them – that sort of thing. A lot of that odd stuff occurs in the writing process and happens quite naturally – many performers tend to ‘straighten’ those quirky bits out, but I love them.

"The main thing I miss is the number of great venues that existed going back 30 or 40 years. There was an absolutely fantastic touring circuit all over this country and considering the sheer size of it and the small population, that was essential for putting together large organised tours." (Phil Manning, 0ne of Australia's best known guitarists  / Photo by Jason Rosewarne)

How has music influenced your views of the world? What has made you laugh and what touched you from your first vinyl albums?

From an early age I heard Buddy Holly, Elvis Presley and those 50's and early 60's rock 'n roll records and loved the sounds. I also went through a stage of listening to 'country and western' music and also the surf music of the early sixties - there were so many songs at the time, but of course, nothing prepared me for when I first heard the Beatles, then the Rolling Stones - I had been given a transistor radio for Christmas and I spent hours and hours searching the dial for more of it...I was gone!

I remember playing the first Stones album and my dad saying 'What's that?' - to which I replied 'That's Keith Richards, the best guitarist in the world!' Dad said 'Nah, I'll play you the best guitarist, son' and he put on some Django Reinhart. I didn't really appreciate it much at the time, but it made me aware of how much music is out there and how varied it can be.

How do you think that you have grown as an artist since you first started making music? What has remained the same about your music-making process?

Having played classical piano for about 8 years growing up, I probably had a fairly good ear, but no experience at all with the guitar, its tuning, making chords on it etc and the classical stuff had no relationship (in my mind anyway) to getting started on guitar - so I was very much self taught, by learning chords from the MelBay guitar instruction book and copying records.

As a journey of discovery, that has continued to this day and even though I have heaps of knowledge and experience compared to 60 years ago, I still create much of my songwriting and guitar arrangements by accidentally finding something new or discovering a different way to play a particular part.

“It’s hard to imagine what music would be like without the enormous influence of blues - it echoes are heard everywhere in pop, rock, jazz and almost all modern styles and so much is owed  to the recording artists of the 20's and 30's - I'm pleased to see the number of young musicians who are tracing back to those early records for inspiration.” (Photos: Phil Manning)

What keeps a musician passionate after six decades in rock, blues? What is the driving force behind your continuous support for your music?

I just love music I guess - that's certainly my main source of passion. I've also never been that keen on learning the intricacies of jazz and all the theoretical stuff that goes with it. I think that I have had an aversion to that type of study as a result of the classical piano years - by the time I wanted to get a guitar and play rock/blues I was thoroughly sick of the sight reading, scale practice, exams and all that disciplinary stuff that went with it.

I guess I consider myself semi-retired nowadays, but previously my main driving force has been survival, paying the bills etc, but mostly I have thrived off performing and the thrill of doing a great show.  Once I had experienced the fun of touring around with a band, the craziness, the ups and downs and everything, I didn't want to do anything else and, as I said, I just loved playing music! I still love it too, but I'm not travelling as much as I used to. Lately my main audience has been a male blackbird in the backyard - he comes to listen to me playing in the late afternoon and seems to be attracted by the key of D - it's very funny.

Of course, Chain still perform occasionally and I also get out solo quite a bit, but I'm over the long tours and constant travel - plus I have been painting again during last few years and that takes up much of my time. (I went to art school for a while before becoming a musician, so that has always been in my blood!)

How did the idea of “Chain” come about? Are there any memories from gigs, jams, open acts and studio sessions with the band which you’d like to share with us?

By the time 'Chain' formed I had already been playing professionally in bands for a couple of years and had gone to Perth in Western Australia to play with a group called 'Beat 'n Trax'. We  moved back to Melbourne (in the state of Victoria) and joined up with a young singer named Wendy Saddington. She named the new lineup 'Chain' and she had such a presence and voice that we immediately began to get attention and lots of gigs. At the same time we all started smoking dope, dropping acid and generally being crazy - there were a few lineup changes until by 1970 the lineup was Matt Taylor (vocals/harp) Barry Sullivan (bass) Barry Harvey (drums) and me (guitar/vocals). This lineup recorded a slow worksong style blues 'Black 'n Blue' which quickly became no.1 on the Melbourne charts. Our next single cracked open the Sydney charts ('Judgement' at No. 2) and the followup album 'Toward The Blues' eventually went double gold. Whereas most blues artists were fairly structured at that time, that lineup of Chain became a very free jamming band and, out of that, arrangements developed and took shape - it was very organic.

“Back in the 60's there was virtually no real living blues legends visiting Australia for us to experience live (except maybe Sonny and Brownie) so the only real influences were via records or a very rare film clip. Local blues acts were generally copies of American or English performers and I guess Chain was one of the first bands here to start writing our own material using blues as a basis.” (Photo: Phil Manning with the legendary Australian blues band ‘Chain’)

Why is it important to we preserve and spread the blues? What is the role of music in today’s society?

It's hard to imagine what music would be like without the enormous influence of blues - it echoes are heard everywhere in pop, rock, jazz and almost all modern styles and so much is owed  to the recording artists of the 20's and 30's - I'm pleased to see the number of young musicians who are tracing back to those early records for inspiration. For a time it seemed that no-one wanted to look back further than Stevie Ray or Jimi Hendrix and were missing out on all that great music that helped make Stevie and Jimi what they were. Of course, there are people like Eric Clapton who have done an incredible amount to keep blues front and centre and educate audiences to what went before. Music is such a large part of the fabric of society, through all cultures, and I find it incredible that blues, which was so isolated originally, is now played right across the globe in many forms - even rap music reminds me at times of some of Blind Blake.

I remember Muddy Waters saying that he was disappointed that there weren't more young black musicians playing blues - they were mostly into funk and soul stuff at the time - and it was mainly young white college kids into blues. I said to him 'Do you think white kids can't play the blues?' (Silly me) and he replied 'Oh, I ain't prejudiced, son' - He was a truly great man and I got to tour Australia twice with him as a support act and having experienced, closeup, artists like Muddy through the years, I hope that music stays with us forever.

How can a band/musician truly turn the blues into a commercial and popular genre of music for the today's audience?

I'm probably not the best person to answer a question like that. I was very fortunate to have hit records as a member of Chain here in Australia in the early 70's. In fact, we were the first act managed by the legendary Michael Gudinski here and he had a great deal to do with that success. As a result my career has since been sort of self perpetuating.

For someone starting out nowadays there are so many platforms to promote on and the dependence on major record labels has changed - but one thing always seems to be constant and that is getting out and performing live, building a following through great shows - nothing beats the vibe of connecting with an audience and performing at the top of your game!

“I just love music I guess - that's certainly my main source of passion. I've also never been that keen on learning the intricacies of jazz and all the theoretical stuff that goes with it.”

(Photo: Phil Manning)

Make an account of the case of the blues in Australia. Which is the most interesting period in local blues scene?

Back in the 60's there was virtually no real living blues legends visiting Australia for us to experience live (except maybe Sonny and Brownie) so the only real influences were via records or a very rare film clip. Local blues acts were generally copies of American or English performers and I guess Chain was one of the first bands here to start writing our own material using blues as a basis. By 1970 there were also Spectrum and Daddy Cool, among others, who wrote commercially acceptable songs that had blues as an undercurrent. Throughout the 70's dozens of artists from USA and UK toured (many of which I supported or played with) and we saw the growth of various blues clubs or societies dedicated to fostering up and coming blues players. That continues to this day and there is a plethora of young (and not so young) performers creating original music based loosely on the blues form...and it shows no sign of slowing down!

Why do you think that the Blues music continues to generate such a devoted following in Australia?

Blues is pretty much a straight ahead, simple form of expression and I think it is certainly something most people can relate to easily – whether it’s just to dance and have a fun time, or to listen and take in the feeling and nuances. Overall, Australians aren’t that complicated as a bunch and those who discover blues really love it heaps.

What moment changed your life the most? What´s been the highlights in your life and career so far?

When I was about 14 my Dad, an electrical repair man, refurbished a great transistor radio for me (I still have it too) – I was wandering around with it blaring at a Christmas holiday camping area and on the radio came the Beatles – ‘I Wanna Hold Your Hand’ or ‘She loves You’ – can’t remember which came first, but that was it! I was gone and from that moment wanted to grow my hair, play guitar etc. Of course, that eventually led me, like so many of that generation, to discover British, then American blues. Then, within a few years I was regularly touring Australia, opening for (and occasionally playing with) many of the greatest names in blues, plus some of the huge rock acts. It was a huge thrill! Of course, much of that touring came about because my band ‘Chain’ had a huge hit with an unusual slow blues song called ‘Black ‘n Blue’, which set up what became a life-long career for me.

What do you miss most nowadays from the blues of the past? What are your hopes and fears for the future of?

The main thing I miss is the number of great venues that existed going back 30 or 40 years. There was an absolutely fantastic touring circuit all over this country and considering the sheer size of it and the small population, that was essential for putting together large organised tours. Twenty years ago, I would’ve said I missed the raw energy and style of the early blues artists, but nowadays there seems to have been a big revival in the styles of the 30’s, 40’s, 50’s and early sixties and there are a huge number of great young people being inspired by that music. I think it’s very encouraging and interesting to hear all these new takes on these much older forms.

"Blues is pretty much a straight ahead, simple form of expression and I think it is certainly something most people can relate to easily – whether it’s just to dance and have a fun time, or to listen and take in the feeling and nuances. Overall, Australians aren’t that complicated as a bunch and those who discover blues really love it heaps." (Photo: Phil Manning with the legendary blues band ‘Chain’)

What touched you from the sound of acoustic blues? What were the reasons that you started the Folk Roots Blues researches and experiments?

Hearing Robert Johnson, Skip James, Blind Blake, Leadbelly etc. when I was at Art School had a huge effect on me, especially as I was mainly interested in the blues oriented pop music of the time. It gave me a reference point at which I could say ‘Oh, now I know where this or that came from” The songs and patterns that existed in acoustic blues were adapted to electric instruments and that formed the basis of much of the sixties music scene that was so exciting to me at the time.

What is the impact of Blues to the socio-cultural implications? How do you want the music to affect people?

When you think about it, blues is at the heart of so much of modern music that its impact must be immense. I can only imagine how boring the music scene would be without that blues influence. Despite the origins of blues being based on suffering, poverty, pain or any number of human conditions, I like to think that its effect on people will be to bring them together, give them a real good time and have them feel warm and happy afterwards.

What are some of the most important lessons you have learned from your experience in the music paths?

At my age and after close to 60 years in the music business I still have trouble thinking about what ‘lessons’ I’ve learnt. All the way through I’ve always held onto the idea that things can get better. It can be a really tough business, travelling endlessly, late nights, sometimes less than enthusiastic audiences, dodgy promoters, shitty sound stages, – the list of negatives can go on and on depending on the level your act is on, BUT the music is what makes it all worthwhile and the rewards can be greatly satisfying. I mean, not many performers become ridiculously wealthy, but I’ve survived and am comfortable and feel very blessed that this is the case AND I still love music, especially guitar stuff, and those old blues records still make me feel all fuzzy! But, I guess the main thing I’ve learnt is to hold on to your dreams and principles and work at it every day… the music is at the heart of it all, but make sure the business side is taken care of too!

Phil Manning - Home

(Photos: Phil Manning)