"Blues was revolutionary because it introduced something new, a language that combined the tragedies and the triumphs in one and that was developed by black slave descendants and offered to the world."

Josep Pedro: Blues Vibe With No Limits

Josep Pedro is musician, writer and scholar from Spain. He have collaborated with different magazines and cultural organizations both in Spain and in the U.S. including The Handbook of Texas Music, Diverse Arts, Texas Music Museum, Mondo Sonoro, Ruta 66, and Efe Eme. Josep is administrator of site Blues Vibe, where I include most of his work. Blues Vibe is a personal initiative by Josep Pedro in order to present articles and projects about popular music. The site follows a multidisciplinary approach combining music, journalism, communication, sociology, history and semiotics.

Furthermore, Blues Vibe introduced more ambitious research musical projects like “Love with a feeling”, which he began during his stay in Austin, Texas, and “El Blues en Madrid/The Blues in Madrid”, both ongoing and connected works of which he will post interviews, articles and videos. The aim is to contribute to blues knowledge and diffusion, particularly in present blues scenes. Thus he presenting different musicians and ways of playing that hopefully contributes positively to both scenes and their relationship. Finally, Blues Vibe is a place to deal with different approaches towards understanding of popular music.

Because of the different media he has collaborated with, there are articles both in English and Spanish. The presence of “blues” in Blues Vibe has to do with fascination and commitment for blues music and lives, for its changing history of migration, transformation and strength. However, the Blues considered from an open point of view. Rather than thinking about it as a music genre on its own, blues is a musical system and language that was fundamental to the musical revolutions of the last century. The blues is a pivotal idiom of our musical identities, as it has driven the rise of so many styles; jazz, rock ‘n’ roll, rock, R&B, soul, and also contributed to country, folk or hip hop. For this reason, the music will generally keep a strong relationship to the blues as a musical continuum with different expressions.

Interview by Michael Limnios

When was your first desire to become involved in the blues & jazz music? How important is music in your life?

Like most of the musicians and aficionados I have interviewed, my involvement in blues and jazz music came along more as a “natural” and evolving process than as conscious decision. I remember listening to CD compilations on rock ‘n’ roll and blues & soul when I was a kid. My brother bought those recordings at a gas station! They included different artists like Carl Perkins, Jerry Lee Lewis, Bill Haley & the Comets, B.B. King (“Recession blues”), Martha Reeves & the Vandellas, Fontella Bass, Ben E. King, The Crew Cuts (“Sh-Boom” which I listened to in the repeat mode!)…

I started to buy records later on and as a teenager, while I continued to discover American music, I developed a fascination for Spanish rock bands like Platero y Tú, Extremoduro, Barricada, or Los Suaves. One day I decided I should quit football and focus instead on learning to play guitar, which I did. I also started to develop an interest in writing about the music and gradually improved my skills and knowledge, till I started to collaborate in different magazines and to write essays for college courses. At the same time, I run a blog where I wrote about blues, soul, jazz, rockabilly, southern rock… whatever I was interested in at the time, though mainly focused on the “black side of popular music”.

Finally, my 5-month stay in Austin, Texas proved to be a turning point in my dedication and specialization in black music. I had done written works and radio show designs about blues and jazz before, but this trip gave me the opportunity to relate locally with people who had grown up in the (black) tradition and community and to carry out first-hand research on my own. Meeting different scene participants and writing about all the musical experiences and history I was learning about was fascinating, and also gave me a both sense of belonging and independence.   

Josep after the interview with Lou Donaldson, Getafe 2012

What do you learn about yourself from the Jazz & Blues culture and what does the “Blues” mean to you?

The process of experiencing and learning about music is also a process in which you learn about who you are, what you’re into, what moves you, and ultimately what you’ll be doing in life. The term “blues” has so many meanings attached to it that it’s hard to define what it is... Blues is a complex music genre and a culture I love, and also a way of looking at things. For instance, blues might be the departure prism from which you look at the black experience in the U.S., or at the evolution of popular music.

As for my musical preferences, I love those merging points where blues intersects with other genres like jazz or soul. That’s why I love artists like Eddie “Cleanhead” Vinson, T-Bone Walker, Lowell Fulson, King Curtis, Louis Jordan… My scholarly research about blues has allowed me to learn a lot about the ways in which scene participants understand blues and compare it to my personal experience. At the same time, the study of blues has also taken me to explore other sounds… For instance, the “discovery” of Yusef Lateef, particularly of The Blue Yusef Lateef (Atlantic, 1968) and Yusef Lateef’s Detroit (Atlantic, 1969), and Rashsaan Roland Kirk’s Blacknuss (Atlantic, 1972) was very revealing…  

How started the thought of Blues Vibe? How do you describe and what characterize Blues Vibe’s philosophy?

After being involved in different projects (from personal blogs to music magazines contributions), I decided that I should have a site where I could develop and share my research more freely, and perhaps gradually incorporate other voices to collaborate too. When I started in March 2012 I had already done a bit of research in Madrid’s blues scene, a scenario that was almost completely unexplored in conventional music media, so it seemed a good idea to put the Austin and Madrid projects all together. Taking blues as a starting point, I wanted Blues Vibe to be a place for writing about music without the limitations of commercial-oriented magazines or sites. For instance, I believe in the intelligence and interest of the audience, therefore I don’t mind having long articles or being exhaustive in what I’m dealing with.

Apart from space limitations, I wanted to move away from the formulaic structures that are constantly employed in music journalism: no 200-word text full of clichés for explaining one particular show; no systematic following of “the news” –international bands on tour that get good reviews in exchange for show tickets. Our approach came more from below in the sense that my research was based in meeting and observing the people within the scene. Whenever we approach more general aspects like “the origins of blues” or records I try to look for a text with some depth and complexity into it, also in touch with previous bibliography. Sometime after Blues Vibe started, I realized that some magazines like Jot Down were putting out interesting, long articles too. However, soon I saw how they often relied on classic albums like, for example, Coltrane’s A Love Supreme which has already been analyzed in detail, or on commercial trends like TV series with varying success. One thing I’m trying to avoid at Blues Vibe is to repeat things that others have already said. We insist on going to the sources, but also on using them to go somewhere else.

Since the website and Facebook community started we have had a very positive response, especially from scene participants –musicians and aficionados. The audience has risen slowly but steadily so that makes you feel partially satisfied because you’re having some kind of impact on people. Also, I am grateful to the different friends and experts who have contributed with their interesting articles: Luke Fuller, Jose Martin, Joan Pedro, Víctor Calzada, Eugenio Moirón and Ramón del Solo.      

Which meetings were important experiences for you? From whom have you have learned a lot about the blues?

I’ve learnt a lot about blues and jazz by buying and listening to records, reading liner notes, books, watching documentaries, trying to learn guitar, piano and harmonica, and talking to different people… At the end of the day, everything becomes a part of your learning process. Throughout my ongoing research about blues music I have met many significant characters who have been very helpful as informants and inspiring figures for carrying out the work. To mention a few, Clay Shorkey (University of Texas at Austin, Texas Music Museum), Clifford Gillard (Victory Grill, Another Option Production), Harold McMillan (Victory Grill, Diverse Arts), Madeline Maxwell (University of Texas at Austin) and Charles Carson (University of Texas at Austin) were instrumental in my learning about the Austin live music scene and history, as well as about the ways in which music research could be developed at universities.

I have also been and continue to be in touch with some key informants within Madrid’s blues scene. Blues scholars and “alternative journalists” Eugenio Moirón and Ramón del Solo, both funding members of Madrid Blues Society, have been particularly helpful, especially in the first stages of my research. Since a big part of ethnographic research consists on learning about the activities and discourses that participants perform, this list should also include a bunch of musicians and aficionados! What I value most is the collective, appreciating spirit within the scene –the fact that people get along together and are willing to help one another because they share at least one same passion. Unlike other music scholars in Spain researching other areas, I have always had a welcoming attitude within the blues scene both from the majority of musicians and fans. So I should thank every one of them for having answered my questions, and allowed me to gradually build a polyphonic story about the blues in Madrid.  

What's been your experience from the trip in USA? Are there any memories which you’d like to share with us?

My stay in Austin from August to December 2010 was a marvelous experience and I still think about it a lot… it’s in my research so I won’t be done with it for a while! It was my first time in the U.S. and the first time I actively and consciously participated in a music scene. I think one good thing about my experience in Austin is that I didn’t know much about its live music scene before getting there. I was just waiting to be there to start finding out who the players and the places to know were. Then I was so excited I started watching live music from day one and didn’t stop until I left.

Since I was doing interviews with blues and jazz musicians, I had the chance to meet them personally and sit down with them for an hour. Despite the amount of work it takes, I love doing interviews because you get to know a lot about someone and I remember all of them in detail. W.C. Clark, the “godfather of Austin’s blues”, was the first East Austin musician I interviewed. It was special because we met at the Historic Victory Grill (Clifford Gillard allowed us to do it in there) and W.C. revealed himself as a very charming character. Musically, he was also one of my favorites. I also remember my relationship with local bluesman Matthew Robinson, his fascinating stories, the phone calls to see where he was playing at, his modest character and laughs… Meeting Pinetop Perkins was also a magic moment, although we weren’t really able to communicate as he was deaf and didn’t speak much. Still, I remember it as one of the moments where I’ve been closer to the blues tradition. He was 97, sat at table in the corner of Antone’s and smoked a cigarette while selling his recordings.

Finally, I loved the experience of going to Memphis. I got the Greyhound Bus and went through Dallas and Arkansas, I saw the Mississippi River, the Stax Museum and the National Civil Rights Museum –including the spot where Martin Luther King Jr. was killed. And I was also shocked by the poverty within the city in comparison to Austin –the vacant slots, buildings in ruins, the feeling of danger people installed in you, the difference between Beale Street and the rest… Memphis was great but it seemed a bit like a thematic park where the same songs were played over and over again.   

Josep Pedro at the Victory Grill with Grey Ghost (left) and Johnny Holmes (right). Austin, 2010

What are some of the most memorable gigs and festivals you've saw? Which memory makes you smile?

I’ve seen a lot of gigs by different bands and am not fond of doing rankings with the best of them. I remember watching the Blues Brothers with soul singer Eddie Floyd in an open-air venue in my home town, Valencia. Also, a few years ago (before going to Austin) I remember watching Louisiana Red in Berlin, at the Köpenicke blues festival, while I was travelling through Europe with my girlfriend. Other memorable, well-known international artists I’ve seen include Mavis Staples (Valencia), Ornette Coleman (Austin), Black Crowes (Austin), Sonny Rollins (Barcelona), Lou Donaldson (Madrid), and Wynton Marsalis (Madrid), who gave an extraordinary show last June.

However, I also enjoy everyday gigs by people I know, like people from the blues scenes in Austin and Madrid. I love the quotidian nature of live music and the fact that you can go out any given night and be moved (or not) by a performance. One of the local musicians in Madrid I always love to go and see is Fede Aguado –performing with his band or with harmonica player Osi Martínez. This comes to prove that, while we all love to see extraordinary concerts from international artists on tour, the closeness to local artists that you experience within the scene can also be tremendously important and gratifying.   

What do you miss most nowadays from the past? How has the blues & jazz changed over the years?

Blues and jazz have mainly evolved in different directions, particularly in Europe. Broadly, while jazz has continued to have a more or less respected name, blues still remains more largely unknown. Socially, I’ve found out that I am more in tune with the blues spaces and people than with the jazz ones. It’s hard to miss something from the past when you’re 25 years old. What I miss regarding my relationship with music and universities is a more extended knowledge about blues and popular music, and also more respect from institutions and opportunities. I haven’t really found many bad reactions but you have to develop things on your own, and it’s not always easy. In general terms, jazz and especially blues studies in Spain are still to be developed and acknowledged. On the other hand, I’ve met people who are dedicated to the study of popular music, others who dedicate their lifetime to music performances and others who carry out cultural initiatives... So, at least in this regard, we must keep our heads up and look forward to changing things to a certain extent. It seems like this kind of cultural struggle has always there to fight.   

The term “blues” has so many meanings attached to it that it’s hard to define what it is... Blues is a complex music genre and a culture I love, and also a way of looking at things. 

Some music stars can be fads but the bluesmen are always with us. What means to be Bluesman?

When people think about a “bluesman”, probably the image of a black, old musician comes to their mind. I think this is essentially correct although we should also acknowledge more frequently the importance of “blueswomen”, right from the beginning of blues history. A “real” bluesman is someone who has been born and raised within the African American cultural tradition, most frequently in the south of the U.S., that has gone to and sung at the black church, learnt music from their family, gone through racial prejudices… and has used music as a tool for sharing their experiences, healing their troubles and to celebrate life. We’d have to put some more details into that. So Muddy Waters was a bluesman a no one denies that.

With the global extension of blues, however, blues is now performed by people from different “races”, countries and cultures. Many of them are called bluesmen, others are denied that title and other even claim it for themselves. There is a delicate balance between accepting the universality of music and the capability of musician to learn a blues repertoire; and acknowledging the uniqueness of the creators of the music. In other words, one of the main differences lies in whether or not one particular musician has been raised within the tradition. Obviously, all of the blues musicians in Madrid are part of another era and have not been exposed to the same things as the “original” artists. But once you see the quality of what they’re performing and understand that some key concepts in blues like struggle and overcoming might be present everywhere, then you can perfectly accept that different people may also have the agency to make blues their own and be called “bluesmen”. It just depends on how strict you decide to be… and it’s not my job or intention to write a closed answer.

Make an account of the case of Local scenes. What is the difference between European and American scene?

Historically, the relationship between the U.S. and Europe in terms of black music has been marked by the European attraction for African American culture –clearly noticeable since WWI and the arrival of performers like James Reese Europe, Alberta Hunter or Josephine Baker, and the constitution of Europe as a liberating scenario for black musicians. There has also been a certain degree of idealization of on another.

I can’t really speak in detail for other countries in Europe but Spain, and particularly Madrid. As for the U.S., again I can speak about my knowledge and experience in Austin. Broadly, I think the musical differences between both territories have been reduced and blues performances in Spain can be of the same quality than in the U.S. There is one important exception, though; good blues singers continue to be difficult to find in Europe while in the U.S. the best singers tend to come from the African American tradition (which is not the majority of the blues musicians). Austin and Madrid both have a constant production of blues music; you can go out and find it almost every day and, on the other hand, musicians also tend to have the same problems: difficulties in getting paid for doing their job, “noise”-derived problems, and overproduction of jam sessions.   

What has made you laugh lately and what touched (emotionally) you from the local Blues & Jazz scene?

I recently travelled to Barcelona for five days with harmonica player Ñaco Goñi, singer-guitarrist Xulián Freire and his girlfriend Eva, and blues activist Eugenio Moirón. This was part of Ñaco’s “Blues con los colegas” (“Blues with my buddies”) project, which he has been developing since 2006. Apart from gigging every day, they were doing interviews with different experts related to the blues scene in Barcelona like Vicente Zumel, Joan Ventosa and Manuel López Poy. Eugenio, who has travelled with them through different parts of Spain, was responsible for recording the interviews, as well as for taking images of their shows. As for me, I was invited as part of the pack by the blues society of Barcelona to give a talk about the history of blues in Madrid.

This trip with blues musicians and activists has given me the chance to learn more about the national tours that blues musicians undertake, and to establish connections with people who are interested in the same things that I am. I also got to play some tunes with Ñaco and Xulián as part of the jam session that followed one of their shows. I don’t consider myself a musician but I do enjoy joining jam sessions once in a while, whenever I feel comfortable. So I take these opportunities as learning moments about the music and the people involved in the making. Generally, there is a welcoming attitude from professional musicians, and the participatory orientation of jams make this kind of meetings normal within the scene dynamics. 

Why did you think that the Blues & Jazz culture continues to generate such a devoted following?

Blues and jazz music are special because of their feeling, structures and improvisation. They also stand out for their subtlety and sensuality. Rather than a departure point to move on to other genres, blues and jazz tend to be an arrival point where one gets to after having listened to other things which did not satisfy them fully. Overall, blues and jazz are so broad that you can then also “use” them as a starting tag to discover different styles or subgenres or to move on to other related genres…  

What's the legacy of Blues in the world culture and civilization? What are your hopes and fears for the future?

Wow… this is a tough one. The legacy of blues in the world culture is that its development decisively changed the way that music was performed until then. Blues was revolutionary because it introduced something new, a language that combined the tragedies and the triumphs in one and that was developed by black slave descendants and offered to the world. Blues will continue in the future and its popularity will probably rise and fall in cycles, although it will probably never become a mass-consumed genre. My hopes and fears come together in the sense that I would like to see blues music “evolve”. I’d like to see some more creativity and composition within the traditional characteristics of blues. As a listener, like many people point out in blues scenes from around the world, I don’t necessarily want to be listening to cover songs of “Hoochie Coochie Man” that actually make no real justice to the original versions. But I do understand that the process of learning blues has to be based on a variety of standards. Let’s at least be original in that selection and presentation, and let’s see where we can go from there… 

"What I miss regarding my relationship with music and universities is a more extended knowledge about blues and popular music, and also more respect from institutions and opportunities."

What from your memorabilia and things (books, records, photos etc.) would you put in a "time capsule"?

I got my shelf full of books about popular music and a bunch of records that I keep renewing… (I keep my whole collection at my family house!) My selection would depend of where the time capsule takes me! Or is it to save this cultural production for the future of mankind?? In that case I’d save all of it! But I’m not fetishistic of any record in particular… I’d take as much as possible, a little blues, a little jazz, a little soul… And I’d decide depending on “the mission” we’re into! Whatever I’m working on at the time or whatever records are “on fire” during a particular time… that’s what I’d get. Right now, I’d take the following LP’s: Stanley Turrentine’s Salt Song (CTI Records, 1971), Clarence “Gatemouth” Brown’s Real Life (Real Records, 1985), Eddie “Cleanhead” Vinson’s The Clean Machine (MUSE Records, 1978), T-Bone Walker’s Funky Town (1969), Hank Crawford’s Mr. Blues (Atlantic, 1967), Count Basie & Big Joe Turner’s The Bosses (Pablo Records, 1974), and a personal compilation of Boardwalk’s Empire soundtrack… The fourth season of the TV series includes some amazing interpretations of “St. Louis Blues” and “Farewell Daddy Blues”!!

What are the lines that connect the legacy of Blues with the Jazz, Soul and continue to Rock n’ Roll and beyond?

In the midst of my research about blues I’ve learnt to distinguish between 1) blues as an autonomous genre, which is what the scene mainly focuses on, and 2) blues as a root or an influence on other genres or styles. To me this distinction has become very important to acknowledge the different positions where people are talking from and their understanding of blues. Blues, jazz, soul and rock ‘n’ roll certainly have many things in common (musical and social characteristics) but they also have aspects that make them partially different. This whole relationship between African-American-derived music is one of my main interests, and I’ll hope to contribute with some work soon. Then, there are some artists that have played so much music that they don’t really fit nicely into genre tags… Was Ray Charles a soul singer, a blues singer, a jazz player…? Of the four genres, rock ‘n’ roll is the one that has had a more ambiguous relationship with the black community.   

Let’s take a trip with a time machine, so where and why would you really wanna go for a whole day..?

Only for one day? If I had a time machine I’d plan to visit different places and times where I’d stay for a couple months learning about the people and their culture. I’d like to go back to the forties and see how it was like in different parts of the States –Austin, New York, San Francisco…- and also take a look at the “jazz” bands in Spain, France, Holland, Britain… I would also like to check out the sixties: take a taste of the free love era, feel the university ambiance and perhaps participate in the black power era –a show by James Brown had to be fantastic! Looks like a complete tour through the 40s, 50s and 60s musical cultures would be my thing! Still, it’s funny that most of the things I’d like to be doing then are essentially the same ones I’d like to be doing now. Perhaps then I could be a successful record producer or a respectable music writer… When we look back we like to think that things were easier to get, and that we’d had more chances to make a living out of blues-related work… But we’ll have to take that trip to find out!

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