"To me the music was, and it is still the art, and not something to waste my brain with substances or ideology. Perhaps I can be characterized as a progressive lefty, but that's all BS to me."

Leonardo Pavkovic:

The Wonderful (Progessive) Soundtrack of Mr. MoonJune 

Leonardo Pavkovic was born in Jajce in 1962 when Bosnia & Herzegovina was still a part of Yugoslavia, from an early age yearned to discover the unknown lands on the “other side of the mountain.” Gradually forging his own path with serendipity on his side, this polyglot citizen of the world, who lived in late 1970s and in the 1980s in Italy has relocated to New York City in 1990, and went on to build an improbably successful one-man international music enterprise in defiance of standard music-biz practice – remarkably, with no concession of musical excellence and imagination. Along the way, he gathered around himself an ever-expanding constellation of adventurous musicians ranging from gifted lesser-known talents to such zeitgeist-defining figures as drum exemplar Bill Bruford, who hailed Leonardo’s abilities as an “enabler” of aspiring musicians, and guitar avatar Allan Holdsworth, who affectionately dubbed him “Nardini” and his singular approach to life “Nardinism.”

(Photo: Leonardo Pavkovic of MoonJune Music and MoonJune Records)

Leonardo runs MoonJune Music (booking and management) and MoonJune Records (independent record label) since 2001. In 2021, Leonardo  has moved his life and his business adventures to the historic city of Toledo in Spain.

Interview by Michael Limnios

How has the music and Rock Counterculture influenced your views of the world and the journeys you’ve taken?

I was born in 1962 and I started listening to the music first thanks to my maternal grandmother, mostly classical, Italian operas, and some quality pop like Charles Aznavour, Sergio Endrigo or Frank Sinatra. The first time that I've heard kind of music I am into today was in the former Yugoslavia, listening to the proto-progressive psychedelic band Indexi and their epic tune from the late 1960s ' Plima' (High Tide). For whatever reasons, the tune was only released 4 years later in 1972, I believe, and immediately became a hit. I was only 10, I didn't understand the music, but I loved it.

In 1970s I frequented Italy where my mother moved in 1971, and I started being exposed to some jazz, blues and some classic rock, as well during my high school days in the former Yugoslavia, before I moved for good to Italy in 1982 (I lived sporadically between Yugoslavia and Italy between 1972-1982). In late 1970s and early 1980s I befriended a few guys, 10-12 years my seniors, and since not so much from 1980s did interest me, I started exploring the music from 1960s and early 1970s, thanks to those new friendships. I do not disrespect any kind of music but disco, punk and new wave really weren't my thing. When I was 17-20, discovering King Crimson, Miles Davis, Jimi Hendrix, Weather Report, Jefferson Airplane, Sun Ra, Terje Rypdal, John Lee Hooker, Keith Jarrett, Gentle Giant or Soft Machine, my attitude toward the music was already formed. I wanted to enjoy the music that I can listen to, not to be a background or to dance with, or to be part of a specific group of people. I never was hippy or punk or beatnik, I never took any drugs, I dislike the 'flavor' of marijuana, but I like to eat quality food and have quality drink, and I was never drunk in my whole life, and I am an activate 'healthy' drinker for over 45 years. Music and travels were my real ‘addictions'.

To me the music was, and it is still the art, and not something to waste my brain with substances or ideology. Perhaps I can be characterized as a progressive lefty, but that's all BS to me. Yes I am not a big fan of the establishment and regimes, I might share many so called lefty ‘thoughts’ and ‘principles', but I have learned how to be neutral continuing to have so-called progressive open minded way of accepting things and the world. But sometimes it is not easy, because people will do anything to label you, not only politically, but also musically. Just because my association in certain periods of my label, people were characterizing me like a progressive rock label, then Canterbury scene label, then fusion label, then avant-garde and improvised music label, but at the end, nothing is neither wrong or true, it is simply the MoonJune label. I cannot do all the time exactly the same thing, I do not eat the same food every day, and I feel more comfortable in something that is not defined. And again, I have a lot of people, even friends, who are trying to attach a label to me, they are so desperate to do it, and being a very calm, ponderous and diplomatic person, this really gets on my nerves sometimes, hahaha! I am not sure sometimes that what I do represent a sort of counterculture. Who is the one who defines culture, anti-culture and counter-culture? Maybe the mainstream is the counterculture and we, the minority in extinctions, are fighting to get the culture back, because the culture and not the consumerism should need the mainstream.

"I am still attending that lesson in which I have to learn what are most important lessons I have learned from my experience in this crazy music business world. But I think I finally learned how to say NO. What a beautiful concept!" (Photo: Leonardo Pavkovic of MoonJune Records)

How did the idea of MoonJune Records come about and the story behind label’s name?

It all came about by chance, helping some musician friends. Guess what? They needed help, they were broke. I lived very comfortably and I decided to help them, just as a friend, as a fan. To properly answer that question, I should write a book about it. But to move on to the much shorter and more concise version, everything is circumstantial and perhaps magical. I have always liked the album 'The Dark Side Of The Moon' by Pink Floyd, which I bought for the first time in June 1981 (at Ricordi, a record store in Bari, Italy, where I lived), and I always felt I belong to the ‘other side’ of ‘everything’, and I knew that the dark side is not so dark, but its ’the unknown’ side, and ’the unknown’ is what excites me the most. Yes, I love Soft Machine's 'Third' album and I love that song 'Moon In June’, and I always connected two albums, because of the Moon. In June 1990 I made the decision to leave Italy and everything I had behind me in my life and move to New York (August 11, 1990 is the day I arrived in the city where I lived for 31 years).

In June 2000, I reconnected with my old friend from the 80s, Elton Dean, in New York, and attended in June (yes, June!), the North American progressive rock festivals, NEARFest, where I discovered one of the great bands of the past 30 years - D.F.A. from Italy (who became one of MoonJune Records' most successful artists). In June 2001, I went to NEARFest again, the first event I attended officially as MoonJune Records, with a rented merch table and selling my first three releases, and networking in a completely new world for me.

When I thought I was ready for the record label adventure, I wanted to call it Noa Noa Music, but then I switched quickly to MoonJune, I already had a moonjune.com domain since 1997, when I had a strange idea to make a Soft Machine tribute website, of course it never happened. And that's how the name came about, easy to pronounce in any language. I have a very thick Balkan accent and know everything about pronunciation, and MoonJune sounded pretty good in any language.

What are some of the most important lessons you have learned from your experience in the music paths?

I am still attending that lesson in which I have to learn what are most important lessons I have learned from my experience in this crazy music business world. But I think I finally learned how to say NO. What a beautiful concept!

"I wish more people were affected by the arts, in this case music, but there are so many distractions in people's lives that the arts and music become unimportant, a background. Music is very important to me, I wish I could have a lot more time to fully enjoy music, it is not always easy when busy working, I like to listen to music without attachments, when I work, it is a distraction from my work, actually my work is a distraction for the music. I wish I am a less busy person!" (Leonardo Pavkovic / Photo by Isabel Ortiz)

What characterise your music philosophy and mission?

I don't think I had a specific mission other than helping some friends and a few young Italian bands in the beginning of my label. To be honest, I had no idea what I was doing, and I didn't even think I would continue as a label, and in the meantime I started booking artists around the world, and that's what I really do for a living. My booking roster is not necessarily related to my label. Early on I worked with Andy Summers, started working with Italian prog legends PFM which lasted almost two decades, booked Soft Works (which I put together: Elton Dean, Allan Holdsworth, Hugh Hopper, John Marshall) which became Soft Machine Legacy in 2004, and then, in 2015, what always used to be, the Soft Machine (me and the late John Marshall always thought that the rebirth of Soft Machine starts in 2002 with Soft Works). Initially Soft Works was on the Universal Japan, Tone Center (US) and Mascot Provogue (Europe) labels, and then I developed my booking into a real business, booking until now more than 3000 shows in more than 65 countries around the world, on 5 continents. My record label grew along with it, but it’s not necessarily related to each other. At one point I had some ambitions and almost got a distribution deal with a $250,000 advance from a major label, which was interested in what I was doing. But everything went wrong, when I was about to get the deal and the money, Terra Firma bought EMI and asked EMI to cut on everything. Many friends of mine lost their jobs at EMI, and I didn't get the distribution and marketing deal. But perhaps, that was one of the best things that happened to me: I became truly independent, and I remain truly independent until now, stubbornly independent, and that is my philosophy, or maybe that’s also my mission? I don't compromise, I do what I like and I enjoy what I do. I've for sure have lost money on my label, financing all with my booking business, but I have achieved something, I've made it possible for a lot of amazing music to be made, and I can proudly say that I've helped some of the artists to be truly themselves, and shine with their incredible talent. Like Mark Wingfield, Boris Savoldelli, Asaf Sirkis, Markus Reuter, Dewa Budjana, Dwiki Dharmawan, Beledo, Dusan Jevtovic, Xavi Reija, Michel Delville and many of his projects, as well as Dennis Rea and several of his projects. And several others. Great people, dear friends, wonderful musicians, I allowed them to be themselves and be completely free. Being emotionally, intellectually and artistically free, it’s the essence of our lives, but many are afraid of it, afraid of being themselves. That’s also my mission, freedom. And to document the expression of artistic freedom. Many of my releases would never sell a lot, but who cares, we made art possible. We want to be appreciated for what we are doing, something that comes from ourselves freely, we do not want to make ‘happy’ others with someone that we do not feel to do it. Which unfortunately many do. I must admit, that while I am fairly well organized and punctual with my booking business, I am not a very good administrator when it comes in my label. Too much work for one small big guy, I was mostly focusing oil making the music possible.      (Photo: Leonardo Pavkovic & Caravan, 2022)

"I do not think I miss anything. Despite me being a romantic and idealist person, I am also very pragmatic. I do not miss the past, I miss the future. I'm am a pragmatic stubborn dreamer. I have desire to know more, to learn more, got visit more countries and to discover more great music."

Make an account of the Music Scene in Yugoslavia? Which is the most interesting period in local music scene? What are some of your most fond memories from that time?

I was born in 1962 in the former Yugoslavia, in what is now Bosnia and Herzegovina, and lived there until 1982, but I spent a lot of time in Italy between 1972 and 1982. I started listening to music as a hobby in Yugoslavia. Somehow, I was immediately drawn to the sound of the 60s and early 70s, from the mid-70s onwards, when I started to realise what I might like. The music scene in the former Yugoslavia, once Tito decided to open the country to the West in 1965, was very rich. In Ljubljana and Belgrade there were very important international jazz festivals, and western music such as jazz, blues and 60s rock was easily infiltrating among young people until the late 60s. Sarajevo, Zagreb, Ljubljana and Belgrade became very important musical cities and many rock and jazz bands were formed in those years. One of the key musicians in those days of the late 60s was Kornelije Bata Kovač, who formed in Sarajevo the legendary pioneering psychedelic beat proto-prog band Indexi, and he then later moved to Belgrade to form the influential progressive rock band Korni Group. Together with Grupa Time from Zagreb, those three bands were hugely influential and helped the formation of a myriad of bands, some obviously very derivative and others with an interesting original sound.

Besides the three bands mentioned above, other artists who emerged between late 1960s and early to mid-1970s are Grupa 202, Yu Grupa, Bulodožer, SMAK, S Vremena Na Vreme, Den Za Den, September, Opus, Generacija 5, Jutro, Pop Mašina, Drugi Način, Bijelo Dugme, Teška Industrija, Tako, Igra Staklenih Perli, Dogovor iz 1804, Leb I Sol, solo artists like Dragan Mlinarec, Josipa Lisac and many others. And the jazz scene produced a myriad of great artists, some of them have reached international recognition such as Lala Kovačev, Duško Gojković, Boško Petrović, Stjepko Gut, and many others. Big Bands were very popular in 1960s and 1970s, and I remember seeing them on the Yugoslavian TV, and I remember especially the Plesni Orkester RTV Ljubljane which was founded in 1945 and in the early 1980s was renamed Big Band RTV Ljubljana. They always had great arrangements and were accompanying some foreign artists as well. In the late 70s and early 80s there were a lot of punk and new wave bands like Pankrti, Azra, Disciplina Kičme, Električni Orgazam, Šarlo Akrobata, Idoli etc., but for some reason I never liked that scene.                                          (Photo: Leonardo Pavkovic, a "Don Quixote of Music")

Yugoslavia was not really an Eastern Bloc country, although many people lump it in that category. Yugoslavia musically was not as strong as Poland, which was by far the most advanced Eastern European country in terms of the music scene (jazz, rock, prog, fusion etc.), but has produced a lot of great music. I saw many concerts in Belgrade during my short stay in the Yugoslavian capital, such as Gillan Band, Samson, Uriah Heep, Ray Charles, Wishbone Ash, Peter Green, Miller Anderson, Alvin Lee, Joe Cocker, Nightwing, Stan Webb Speedway, Dr. Feelgood, Talking Heads, Bernard Lubat, George Coleman, Dizzie Gillespie, Tony Scott, Clarke Terry, and some others. Seeing Weather Report in Belgrade in 1980 and Pat Metheny Group in 1983 changed my life, and my youthful stubbornness told me that the music I like the most is not the music of my generation, but the music of the generation before mine, and I always say that I spent the 80s listening to music from the 60s and early 70s following the artists of the 80s who kept the flame of those days alive. I had already been living in Italy since the early 1980s and my love for jazz, fusion, progressive rock, blues, world music, psychedelic rock and classic hard rock was stronger than any new trend that emerged in those days.

Why is it important to we preserve and spread the blues? Are there any specific memories with the Blues in Yugoslavia that you would like to tell us about?!

I am not an absolute traditionalist, but I do believe that ethnic and heritage music should be preserved and introduced to younger and future generations, and that is the case with the blues. In the last 20 years, the blues has been re-emerging in the United States and some of the blues artists are almost superstars, like Joe Bonamassa or Trucks/Tedeschi Band, and Buddy Guy was active until last year, and they were playing for large audiences. All of this helps the preservation of the genre. I think the blues is very present in Europe and it is interesting how it is gaining popularity in Asia, not counting Japan where it was popular since the 1960s. In 2012 I helped a blues festival in Jakarta, Indonesia, and I took several artists to that event which was held in a 5,000-capacity sports hall: Bill Simms Jr., Guy Davis, Jan Akkerman, Davy Knowles. I almost took Tyler Bryant the following year, but it didn’t work. At that festival I became friends with Gugun, the local blues guitar hero, whom I saw both in Jakarta and then in New York with his band Gugun Blues Shelter. A truly outstanding guitarist and singer and frontman. I think there are several blues festivals in the Philippines and Japan. I also worked with a Chinese friend of mine, bassist’s composer and singer Zhang Ling, and helped him produce a blues album in New York with Pete Levin, John Tropea, Lenny White, Guy Davis, John Cariddi and a few others. I also helped him with some concerts in New York and once Davy Knowles invited him to join him on stage. Seeing that the blues have a global reach is encouraging and that there are festivals and societies is a good sign.

Blues was very popular in Yugoslavia, but somehow there were no significant artists in 1960s and 1970s who actively performed and recorded this genre. Perhaps the first so called scene was in Belgrade an the College of Technology (Mašinac) at the Belgrade University where every Monday there was a blues night with a DJ playning LPs of blues heroes for 3 hrs, and I believe every second Monday there was a live band as well, and I saw a few of them, like Blue Horizon and another one I cannot remember its name. I made many new friends there and we were drinking some beers and having some snacks listening to blues and I was discovering Muddy Waters, John Mayall, BB King, Janis Joplin, John Lee Hooker, Big Mama Thornton, Savoy Brown, Peter Green’s Fleetwood Mac, among others. DJs were very cool and very informative telling us stories of blues heroes.

"The reason that is not known, is because we live in a different era of the humanity, and I wouldn’t like to go further with that. I am an optimist and I believe better days will come, not only for the humanity, but also for the music and arts." (Photo: Leonardo Pavkovic of MoonJune Music)

If you could change one thing in the musical world and it would become a reality, what would that be?

We need more education in schools, we need kids to learn arts, music, history, geography. We need more culture. That’s what we need. Criticising Facebook, Amazon, Spotify it really doesn’t help, the humanity is moving forward, and only the future will judge if that’s good or a bad change. I am open to embrace new technologies and new realities. What matters, that the humanity is pretty uneducated and lazy to learn, that shoyulkd change, but not sure how, since the politicianship is not interested in arts and education. And we are ending up with pseudo-leaders such as Trump or Bolsonaro or similar imbeciles, and we witness the introduction of technocrats who are completely and totally detached from the reality of regular humans, like Elon Musk, and without any feasible and valid alternative to improve the education and combat the ignorance. Modern Neros and Caligulas are leading and ruining the world. Uneducated masses are unable to elect proper politicians who can help culture and education, and the progress of the humanity. Despite me being an optimist and a very positive person, sometimes I am skeptical in there is a hope for the consciousness of humans.

What moment changed your music life the most? Which meetings have been the most important experiences for you?

I met Elton Dean in Bari, Italy, in 1987. Then I came to New York in August 1990 and worked for Studio T Graphics, a legendary one-stop graphic design shop founded by Brazilian photographer and graphic artist Fernando Natalici. Through Studio T I met a lot of people, some famous, some infamous, and I became friends with interesting music-loving people. In 1998 I met Giorgo Gomelski and Soft Machine bassist Hugh Hopper in New York. In January 2002 I met the mighty Allan Holdsworth. In June 2002 I co-produced the Soft Works album 'Abracadabra', the beginning of the new regenerated and renewed legacy of one of my favorite bands, Soft Machine. After 22 years, I am still carrying the torch of Soft Machine. And I had a long history of working with Holdsworth. I took PFM to Japan in May 2002, the first of my 52 trips to Japan, and the first of over 70 tours in Japan, and helping the licensing of their 3 albums from the end of the century and making possible live album and DVD are first of over 300 albums I helped license for my clients to Japanese record labels. Then everything was happening like a snowball, like an incredible magic domino effect. Then I befriended Tony Levin in 2008, and much more. I said before, I can write a book about it (actually I started on my book, but it will take years before it is finished).

My legacy of what I am doing will be marked by my association with Soft Machine, Allan Holdsworth and Tony Levin. But I also met some of the most talented and genius musicians I have ever had the opportunity to work with: Markus Reuter, Gary Husband and Diego Amador.

Are there any specific memories or highlights of your career that you would like to tell us about?!                                                     (Photo: Leonardo Pavkovic)

As a record label, there are some very important highlights and I would like to mention the underdogs rather than the more successful and well-known artists. When I started releasing and promoting albums of Indonesian artists, starting with Riza Arshad’s seminal band simakDialog, and continuing with Tohpati, Dewa Budjana, Dwiki Dharmawan, Ligro, Tesla Mana and I Know You Well Miss Clara, I felt I was doing something important and truly fulfilling. They were all my friends and if I didn’t gave them the opportunity to be known in my niche but worldwide reach, no one would ever be aware of their mega amazing talents.

Then, in 2016, I went for the first time to a very magical place, La Casa Murada, 1 hour west of Barcelona, an 11th century country mansion transformed into a recording studio and a temple of music and since then, In those magical settings, they have produced over 20 great albums of brutally fabulous music. That is the place where the brilliance of Mark Wingfield, Markus Reuter, Asaf Sirkis, Dwiki Dharmawan, Beledo, Luca Calabrese, Quartet Diminished and others reached the highest artistic level. All of us musicians were looking for magic and we went to that beautiful place and made magic. We recorded fabulous music, had a great time, ate fabulous food, created a community, a brotherhood, the MoonJunista Brotherhood. And we had our own Jesus! The wonderful Jesús Rovira, renowned Catalan bassist, and owner of the studio (in fact his family had owned that property since the 14th century!). We had a temple, and we had a Jesus, what a party for a bunch of infidels!

The highlights of my booking career are related to Soft Works / Soft Machine Legacy / Soft Machine (from 2002 until now), Allan Holdsworth (2002-2016) and Tony Levin (since 2008), all legendary artists with whom I have travelled all around the world all over the world, specially with Tony: with Stick Men but also with his jazz band he had with his older brother Pete, the Levin Brothers, as well with the improv band BoHoLeMa (Bozzio, Holdsworth, Levin Mastelotto). I was covering many duties specially for Stick Men, booking shows and tours, co-releasing their album under the MoonJune moniker, it’s a team work (with Markus Reuter who handles the label part of the Stick Men), and we do it well. When I travel with Stick Men, I have my merch table, I meet people of all kinds, chat with them, become friends. Uncle Tony is a special friend, and I am privileged to call him a dear friend. Uncle Tony and the legendary Derek Shulman (formerly of Gentle Giant and then a successful music business impresario), are some of my closest friends, they are my mentors, they are veterans of live and the music business, and they have lived their career fully, and I have learned from them a lot.

Another highlight of my booking is that I can travel around the world, but lately I travel a bit less. I have artists that I book worldwide and exclusively, then I have some artists which I book in certain territories, like just Japan, or all over Asia, all over Latin America, and I have booked artists even in Africa. My forte is the North America and I am expanding my booking roster for the USA/Canada booking. Being able to travel, to know different places, to meet new people, eat different food, discover natural beauty and be in touch with different cultures, it’s what I like the most. A lot of people who do what I do, stick with touring only. I always extend my ‘business trips’ to 'leisure trips’. Whenever I was taking an artist to Japan or elsewhere in Asia, I was taking a week or sometimes more and sometimes less of my time, and I visited out of the curiosity to other places, where I was meeting new people, establishing new connection, which more than often, have created new business opportunities. Same with Latin America. I have particular fascination for countries like Indonesia, China, Brazil, Mexico, South Africa.

"We need more education in schools, we need kids to learn arts, music, history, geography. We need more culture. That’s what we need. Criticizing Facebook, Amazon, Spotify it really doesn’t help, the humanity is moving forward, and only the future will judge if that’s good or a bad change. I am open to embrace new technologies and new realities. What matters, that the humanity is pretty uneducated and lazy to learn, that shoyulkd change, but not sure how, since the politicianship is not interested in arts and education." (Photos: Leonardo Pavkovic of MoonJune Music and MoonJune Records)

What do you miss most nowadays from the music of the past? What are your hopes and fears for the future of?

I do not think I miss anything. Despite me being a romantic and idealist person, I am also very pragmatic. I do not miss the past, I miss the future. I'm am a pragmatic stubborn dreamer. I have desire to know more, to learn more, got visit more countries and to discover more great music. Despite accumulating an impressive collection of music in past 45 years, despite the fact that many of my musical heroes are from 1950s, 1960, 1970s, I believe that today there is so much amazing music, like never ever before in the history of human kind. The reason that is not known, is because we live in a different era of the humanity, and I wouldn’t like to go further with that. I am an optimist and I believe better days will come, not only for the humanity, but also for the music and arts.

What is the impact of music on the socio-cultural implications? 

In the 1960s and 1970s, music was at the forefront of young people's lives. It continued to have a somewhat minor impact in the 1980s and 1990s, but in the 21st century it became a secondary or tertiary focus. Now it has become people's background, smart gadgets, smartphones and tablets and 'social media' have become the foreground, which has affected people's minds in terms of "shopping culture”, and owning “a piece of musical art” has seemingly become less important, a trend that has only intensified with the emergence of “all-you-can-buy-or-consume-for pennies” style digital products. With 10-15 USD or Euros You can have virtually EVERYTHING. Then why to buy?

How do you want the music to affect people?

I wish more people were affected by the arts, in this case music, but there are so many distractions in people's lives that the arts and music become unimportant, a background. Music is very important to me, I wish I could have a lot more time to fully enjoy music, it is not always easy when busy working, I like to listen to music without attachments, when I work, it is a distraction from my work, actually my work is a distraction for the music. I wish I am a less busy person!

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(Photo: Leonardo Pavkovic of MoonJune Music and MoonJune Records)