“One major lesson music has taught me is to eliminate the divisions of “genre” and “race.” I have come to despise the label “music genre” because it imposes artificial boundaries on our understanding.”

Sacromud: The Overground Blues

SACROMUD is the Overground Blues, the new place of the "new blues" of Maurizio Pugno's new project. A stroll inside Bluesland, an "off-scale blues suite", into a secular prayer that speaks of exodus, of the sensuality of our weaknesses, of the sound of our footsteps and of the surprises of wandering spirits! SACROMUD is a Labilia production and is not just a band that fishes into Maurizio Pugno's blues, continuing in some way the path started over 35 years of activity around the world, but it is a real factory of suggestions and sounds spread on what we are today, in what is our contemporary ballad. «Maybe, to continue the journey, instead of selling our soul to the devil like Robert Johnson, we must accept the hell, and - as Italo Calvino says - become such a part of it that you can no longer see it. The second is risky and demands constant vigilance and apprehension: seek and lean to recognize who and what, in the midst of hell, are not hell, then make them endure, give them space». This is how Maurizio Pugno, leader and founder of the Sacromud collective, comments the end of «Gubbio to Memphis», the documentary made between Italy and the South of the Mississippi. Sacromud are: Maurizio Pugno on guitar; Raffaele «Raffo» Barbi on vocals; Franz Piombino on bass; Alex Fiorucci on organ, piano and synthesizers; and Riccardo Fiorucci on drums.

(Photo: Sacromud are Maurizio Pugno, Raffaele Barbi, Franz Piombino, Alex Fiorucci and Riccardo Fiorucci)

The band, with a video crew in tow, extended its stay in Mississippi in an attempt to generate a documentary within a new vision regarding finding a common thread between «what we are and what we have loved». In addition to the documentary, the operation generated the publication of two albums, both children of  this  production  that  we  can  define  as  «the trilogy of a journey». The first, released in 2024, is the double Live album called «Gubbio to Memphis – Live At Opera House; The Overground Suite». The second, «The SUN Experience» is the result of the recording session, completely analog, at the legendary SUN RECORDS studio in Memphis. These are Sacromud as they have never been before, stripped down but enriched by the Cape Horns, a horn section arranged by Pugno; a sound that will project them from Sam Philips Avenue a few blocks away, to East McLemore Avenue, towards STAX and «Soulville»!

Interview by Michael Limnios                Archive: Maurizio Pugno, 2012 Interview

Special Thanks: Maurizio Pugno, Davide Grandi & Lorenz Zadro (A-Z Press)

How has the music influenced your views of the world and the journeys you’ve taken?

I have always disliked the term “music genre” because I believe it represents a horizontal paradigm in which humanity imposes fences and limits to its understanding. To me, music is a vertical phenomenon. The blues, in particular, serve as a projection toward the underworld of feelings arguably the best way to understand the vulnerable.

Gubbio is not only my hometown but also the place that ignited my passion for Afro-American music. This passion was sparked, ironically, by an accident in 1976 that led to a long hospital stay in Rome. During that hospital stay, a “hippie” aunt - whom we affectionately called “auntie” because of the caring nurses - gave me a 60-minute TDK cassette featuring artists she was listening to at the time: Steppen-Wolf, Deep Purple, CSN&Y, Jefferson Airplane, Jackson Browne, Joni Mitchell, and Johnny Cash with a song called “I Walk The Line.” Along with these, there was also a track titled “I’ll Play The Blues For You” by Albert King, an artist whose origins and style were initially mysterious to me but left an indelible, subliminal mark on my soul.

Back home - after experiencing what I call my authentic childhood blues - I locked myself in my room with vinyl records, tapes, books, milk & mint, and I began studying the tenor saxophone, my first true instrument. After that, when I was seventeen, a friend who owned a record store helped me take my engagement with the blues more seriously. I spent countless hours there, buying vinyl, discussing politics, courting pretty girls, and dreaming of life on the road. One day, he lent me a Jimmy Reed anthology, saying, “It’s time!” The song “Bright Lights Big City” struck me like lightning.

I began to decipher my suffering through the blues, which connected with the part of me yearning to make sense of pain. The vertical line drawn by the stone buildings of my hometown meeting the horizon of the Mississippi created an inner crossroads for me - the crossroads where the simple, everyday narratives of the blues, rooted deeply in domestic life, found a voice. The incredible journey with Sacromud - to Memphis, Mississippi, to Beale Street, Clarksdale, to Stax Records where "I’ll Play The Blues For You" was recorded, to Sun Studios where "I Walk The Line" was recorded, to dust off Albert King’s grave; and finally, to record an album at Sun - brought my past full circle, giving meaning to the suffering of that child in a hospital bed.

”Looking ahead, my hope is that while today’s youth (my 20-year-old musician son is living it) benefit from technological ease, they will not lose the creative spark. Society pushes for perfection in minimal time, yet true art requires time and the transformative experiences of life. We may think we have captured time with speed, but remember - a fly’s life is shorter than an elephant’s.” (Maurizio Pugno, leader and founder of the Sacromud / Photo by Andrea Guerzoni

How do you think that you have grown as an artist since you first started making music? What has remained the same about your music-making process?

Each of us evolves according to our experiences. I remain, at heart, the child who fell in love with the sound of the soul, a love that has grown into a deep passion for music and composing arrangements long before any ambitions to become a virtuoso or a “guitar hero”. My approach is essentially the same, though both the world around me and I have changed.

I have now reached the final phase of this journey, striving to break down genre boundaries and to reinterpret the blues in a contemporary way—ensuring that the roots remain nourished, giving rise to new growth. Even if just one person, past or future, finds meaning in this small stream I generate, my life will have been worthwhile. Today, I create music while looking out of the window and keeping an eye on what’s happening in the world, even though it’s still that same old green pencil that writes the melodies.

How did that idea of “Sacromud” come about? Do you have any interesting stories about the making of the new album The Sun Experience?

After more than 35 years of playing blues and R&B around the world with international artists like Sugar Ray Norcia, Mark DuFresne, Mz Dee, Lynwood Slim, Mark Hummel, Dave Specter, Alex Schultz, and many others - and after spending over six years performing with my “right and left arm” and current bassist of Sacromud, Franz Piombino, alongside the remarkable Italian singer Linda Valori - I realized it was time to “walk the line.” I wanted to ground my music in the contemporary while remaining rooted in the blues of our existence, even as we are all shaped by today's contradictions. After several attempts with Franz, we discovered the magic of sound thanks to an extraordinary drummer, Riccardo Fiorucci, with his problem-solving skills and impeccable timing, Alessandro Fiorucci, a keyboard player whose palette perfectly colors our music, and - most notably -a “nearby” voice (literally, he lives just down the road from me), Raffo Barbi. When I first heard him sing, I said, “This apparently bourgeois sound carries the sacred mud of the contemporary”.

Thus, the name Sacromud was born - half Italian, half English - emphasizing both our roots and our passions. After three albums and the honor of representing Italy at the International Blues Challenge in Memphis, we embarked on an incredible adventure through Mississippi, Tennessee, and Arkansas, even enduring an unusual ice storm that derailed our original plans and led to the creation of unexpected ones. We had written months in advance to Sun Records asking if we could record during our stay, but received no response. Then, on our second day in Memphis, while on a planned tourist visit to Sun Studios, our guide and “field producer” Davide Grandi unexpectedly approached us. He calmly announced, “Due to snow, all scheduled sessions have been cancelled. But if you want, you can record tomorrow at 19:00.”

Panic, joy, and disbelief ensued. The sound engineer, Daniel Crockett, asked, “How many songs would you like to record?” Songs? Not song? I discarded the idea of an entire album, but Daniel reassured us, “It’s okay. We’ll set up the studio at 7:00 PM and you’ll have five uninterrupted hours to create what you want.” That snowfall and ice, which in Gubbio would have meant nothing more than a hassle of mounting winter tires, in Memphis gave us the hottest night of our musical lives!

”The incredible journey with Sacromud - to Memphis, Mississippi, to Beale Street, Clarksdale, to Stax Records where "I’ll Play The Blues For You" was recorded, to Sun Studios where "I Walk The Line" was recorded, to dust off Albert King’s grave; and finally, to record an album at Sun - brought my past full circle, giving meaning to the suffering of that child in a hospital bed.” (Photo: Sacromud)

Why do you think that the Sun Records/Studio continues to generate such a devoted following?

Much of the music we love today can trace its origins to Sam Phillips, the pioneering DJ from Florida who arrived in Memphis in 1946 - if I remember correctly - to work at radio station WREC recording live shows at the Peabody Hotel. His entrepreneurial spirit transformed a small garage at 706 Union Avenue into the "Memphis Recording Service," a modest studio for unsigned bands. That garage evolved into Sun Records in 1952. He clearly has responsibility for who we are, Sacromud included.

The bold decision to record what is widely considered the first rock and roll single, “Rocket 88” by Jackie Brenston (written by Ike Turner), set in motion the legendary careers of Elvis Presley, Johnny Cash, B.B. King, Junior Parker, Jerry Lee Lewis, Carl Perkins, Roy Orbison, Ringo Starr, and even later stars like U2, Stray Cats, and Ruthie Foster. This enduring legacy imbues Sun Records with undeniable magic.

For us, playing on instruments from that era - Jerry Lee's piano and the other vintage gear - was an indescribable thrill. I looked at my companions, such as Riccardo Fiorucci playing the drums once used by Ringo Starr, and wondered if I was awake, dreaming, dead or drunk.

That day, recording our uniquely contaminated sound on those old tapes, I felt that it was not merely I who was there, but my dream.

What do you miss most nowadays from the music of the past? What are your hopes and fears for the future of?

I tend to avoid dwelling in nostalgia because I believe that doing so assigns our future to new generations instead of embracing it ourselves. We have a historical responsibility that we sometimes neglect in favor of our personal, less collegial desires. Music of the past, and the history behind it, is why we are here. Roots must be preserved - treated with respect, studied thoroughly, and cherished without merely imitating attitudes from different historical or cultural contexts. As I often say, if roots remain underground, hidden and accessible only to a few, they risk drying up, leaving the tree unable to bear new fruit.

I also miss the excitement of making music together - the live shows, the long rehearsals in cellars, the desire to make music political rather than didactic, and the thrill of being on the road. Fast communication and the instant gratification of digital clicks have vaporized much of that raw energy. For us, creating this record is an act of resistance.

Looking ahead, my hope is that while today’s youth (my 20-year-old musician son is living it) benefit from technological ease, they will not lose the creative spark. Society pushes for perfection in minimal time, yet true art requires time and the transformative experiences of life. We may think we have captured time with speed, but remember - a fly’s life is shorter than an elephant’s.                                 (Photo: Sacromud)

”Thus, the name Sacromud was born - half Italian, half English - emphasizing both our roots and our passions. After three albums and the honor of representing Italy at the International Blues Challenge in Memphis, we embarked on an incredible adventure through Mississippi, Tennessee, and Arkansas, even enduring an unusual ice storm that derailed our original plans and led to the creation of unexpected ones.”

What moment changed your music life the most? What´s been the highlights in your life and career so far?

My musical life has often been reshaped by life’s pressures and events. The most important moments, however small they might seem in the grand scheme, are treasures to me.

I have performed at dozens of festivals - from Notodden in Norway to Pistoia Blues, shared stages at Paradiso in Amsterdam with Mavis Staples, and even spent half an hour in a Belgian dressing room with the gentle B.B. King. I contributed, in a small way, to a Grammy Award-winning album by Sugar Ray Norcia as the author of two songs. I have shared stages with Robert Cray, Tower Of Power, John Hammond, James Cotton, Hiram Bullock, Status Quo, Solomon Burke, Wilson Pickett, Rhiannon Giddens, Beth Hart, Pinetop Perkins, Jimmy Johnson, Jimmy Rogers, and more. I have produced 19 albums - including three in the US produced by Jerry Hall’s Pacific Blues Records—and toured extensively with songs I wrote for Sugar Ray Norcia, Mz Dee, and Mark Dufresne, as well as working with bands led by Lynwood Slim, Tad Robinson, Linda Valori, and others. I was also honored in Paris for my album "That's What I Found Out." Today, Sacromud remains my greatest challenge.

A technical detail I want to share: many years ago, thanks to Alberto Marsico- a mentor and one of the best organists in the world—I had the chance to tour Europe with Tad Robinson, one of my favorite blues guitarists. In that tour, Alex Schultz, a guitarist whose touch and timing were unmatched, played alongside us. At that time, I was perpetually dissatisfied with my own playing. I felt I was merely replicating what “the good ones” had done, and when I listened back, I was disappointed. Then, at a concert in Germany with two guitars, I confided in Alex about my frustrations. With typical politeness, he said, “You can feel that you are a saxophonist at heart and that you are Italian. These two aspects make your playing lyrical and unique. You don’t think like a typical guitarist. Never abandon these qualities to mimic the ‘American style.’ Work on embracing that typically European sense of timing - even if it makes you feel as though you’re always late on the beat, because eventually, you will be right”. That conversation marked the beginning of my deep exploration of the “tennis” concept of time.

What are some of the most important lessons you have learned from your experience in the music paths?                                  (Maurizio Pugno / Photo by Damiano Xodo)

One major lesson music has taught me is to eliminate the divisions of “genre” and “race.”
I have come to despise the label “music genre” because it imposes artificial boundaries on our understanding. The greatest lesson is that music is a universal, free zone where communication transcends words. When musicians from different geographical and cultural backgrounds - each with unique languages, skin colors, religious beliefs (or none), styles, and even sexual orientations - gather to play, they communicate without saying a word, speaking directly through their souls.

“Music of the past, and the history behind it, is why we are here.”

Why is it important to we preserve and spread the blues? What is the role of music in today’s society?

Spreading the blues is crucial because it is the music that tells the “everyday” and it does so with a load of suffering mixed with sensuality that has no equal. However, preserving the blues does not mean clinging to it as if it was an aged wine shared among only a few old friends. The blues must evolve beyond clichés, for its influence permeates all music that defies traditional genre boundaries—acting as a powerful political and emotional force in society. At my age I fight with bare hands - and with Sacromud!

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